America the Godless
November 11, 2008
My good friend Jeff Hill had a post on his blog the other day about the current situation of our country including the housing market, the presidential election, and the general moral compass of most americans. A lot of people criticized him for his harsh speech, and some of those accusations were valid based on Scripture. But also he is frequently misunderstood and that’s why I have encouraged him to write another post further clarifying what he is saying.
But this post of his brought the issue to my mind: is America a Godly nation?
At this point, you may be thinking of your definition of Godly and comparing America to it. Let me offer one that should be obvious: seeking after God, submissive to God, searching the Scriptures to better understand God, living God’s principles.
It’s based on this definition that I say “no.” America is not a Godly nation, and it continues to get worse and worse. Yes, there were some bans on same-sex marriage passed recently in a few states, and there are a whole lot of churches, but there’s not a lot of people living out their so-called Christianity. If the average American were to read some of the blogs I read on a daily basis (and my blog as well) they would be angered by what they see as a twisting of Scripture or a misrepresentation of Christianity. But the truth is,
America’s so-called Christianity is not REAL Christianity at all.
The pseudo-christian religion that the majority of Americans embrace is a fallacy. It is based on man-centered theology that sees a small bit of goodness in everyone that allows us to “choose God,” and continues to condemn those who tell the truth as “extremists.” Islam is embraced as “a religion of peace” when those who adhere most correctly to the Qu’ran are flying planes into our buildings.
There is a remnant of believers, as there is in every country, known as the true Israel according to Scripture, that seeks God and His purposes for their lives, because Jesus Christ died for them and supernaturally regenerated them for His glory.
America is a secularized nation. Some of the values of the Constitution are scriptural, but a Christian’s highest allegiance goes to Christ alone.
But God has it all under control- control has always belonged to God- free to love whom He chooses, free to glorify Himself through any circumstances including the death and just judgment of the wicked.
But don’t call America a Godly nation. Because you’re redefining the word Godly. And whether you’re aware of it or not, you’re slandering God by misrepresenting Him.
November 13, 2008 at 9:45 am
Josh
You state this very well. The cultural Christianity of America is by no means the truth declared in scripture. Let us not forget that we fall far short of what is required as well. This makes us totally dependent upon His grace. The law should make us thirst for the grace of God and the righteousness of Christ all the more. Realizing we can’t please God we become aware of our total inability to save ourselfs. Yes American Christianity will serve all the more as fuel for the fire that burns up the wood, hay, and stubble.
November 13, 2008 at 10:46 am
Thank you for bringing home the point with eloquence. Absolutely agree with your response.
November 24, 2008 at 3:00 pm
while there may be some truth in here, it is rather disturbing to see people categorizing the ‘majority of American Christians’ in any way whatsoever. you are of course entitled to your opinions, but until you are actually leading a life fully sold out for Christ, you have to be careful about the speck in your brothers’ eye.
November 25, 2008 at 8:18 am
Hello Mrs. Theresa,
first I must apologize for the ways in which i have responded to you in the past.
Now if you the “the speck in your brothers eye” passage in context it is clearly saying that you should not point out a sin if you are committing the same sin. not that we should not point out people who are preaching a false gospel when we are indeed preaching the true one. also the passage assumes that the people we are talking to are “brothers” which most clearly are not.
with love,
Jeff
December 6, 2008 at 5:14 am
Hi there Jeff. No need to apologize. You are just passionate about your beliefs – which is a good thing. When I wrote what I did I should have made myself clear – I was not referring to those preaching the Gospel but to those who are professing Christians yet who look and act just like the world. Basically what I was trying to say was that a lot of people claim to be Christians but they do not live in a way that is pleasing to God. They are not living holy lives – which was something that Josh talked about in his post. And to that I commented that ‘you’ (meaning anyone in the body of Christ) must be careful about pointing out how others are not living godly lives. Unless we can say yes to the question – in the light of the Most High God, the Holy One, to Him whose eyes are like a flame of fire – can we stand in our life and proclaim godliness? It is easy to fall into a trap of criticism. The hard thing is to do the work that needs to be done and to ask the Lord how can you lovingly help those who have strayed from the path, or those who are lost… History shows that there are always men and women doing things in the name of God that are a disgrace to His Name. The word is clear on how to deal with situations within the body of Christ. For others, where we have no influence, we must know that God has a plan for each person. Proverbs 1 talks about those who ’set an ambush for their own lives’. To me, it is less a thing to be criticized than to be interceded for, praying that those people would ‘…turn at my [God's] reproof…” It also says that “…the simple are killed by their turning away, and the complacency of fools destroys them.’ Am I saying not to do anything? No, but I am saying to do what God calls you to do. I’m just not sure criticizing an entire group of Christians and, in your case, basically giving up on america as a whole, is the right answer. No offense meant, just an observation.
December 10, 2008 at 10:18 am
This may be semantics but the use of the word criticize does not correctly identify what has been done here. What is being done is a warning of misplaced loyalties. I think perhaps the prohpets all could of been called criticizers but they did in fact point out the NATIONS wrongs and rightly delivered the Word of God to the nation. Now are any of us on the same level as the prophets of old? By no means. We are, however, required to follow the direction of scripture. We have in America many who honestly think themselves right with God (Read Matthew 7:21-23). There are people who honestly think they are saved but Christ will tell them to depart. Are we not called to warn them? Are we not obligated to love them enough to extend the truth to them? When someone thinks they are right it takes a hard hammer to break down the walls of ignorance they have built. Too many people think they have to wait and not hurt peoples feelings when some feelings need to be hurt if results are to be expected. A broken and contrite spirit is pleasing to God, this sounds like hurt feelings as well as God given repentance. Let us not fall into a socially acceptable gospel that is always a false gospel. Let us use scripture in its entirety and not pick parts that appear to indicate something that they clearly, when taken into context with the rest of scripture, do not indicate. America has had too many casual readers of the Holy Word attempt to divide it. When honest and deep study and meditation are done then the truth is clear.
December 11, 2008 at 7:05 am
First, I’d like to say that I try to be someone who searches the scriptures for truth and not just picking and choosing verses to fit where I want them. I love the Word, study it daily and try to never take it out of context. I’ve not been to seminary or other formal Biblical training. I will prayerfully accept any and all opposing views and ask my Father who is in heaven to reveal His truth to me in these matters.
I want to be respectful and caring in my comments and not doing the thing that I was speaking of: being critical. The word critical is defined as “Inclined to judge severely and find fault.” In my opinion, this word is appropriate to certain aspects of the referenced blog entries being discussed.
The prophets were told directly by God what to say for His purpose.
Does that mean we should not speak out in the light of false teachings and doctrine? Of course not. But Jesus said we are to love our ‘enemies’ – and someone preaching anything other than the true Gospel is somehow at least under the influence of the enemy…
Right now I’m studying Ezekiel. Even in the midst of judgment God asks ‘…why will you die, O house of Israel’? God is just. God is merciful. Yes, He wants conviction of sin and repentance. And depending on the individual circumstance, harsher measures may be needed – but it is individual. Not every person clumped together in one group. Those that are leading them astray will be accountable before God to that higher degree.
The prophets spoke with broken hearts.
The prophets interceded on behalf of the nation of Israel.
I am not saying that these young men are not interceding on behalf of all of these ungodly “Christians” or this secular society, because only God knows what occurs in the secret place.
Yes as believers we are told that we cannot just stand by without warning those who are lost – for that we will all be held accountable. I did not say we should be worried about hurting anyone’s feelings or preaching some false gospel – or tolerating either one.
The question is, are we confronting those men and women who think they are saved and helping to show them the truth if God has placed this burden on our hearts?
Are we making appointments, visiting, calling, writing letters and discussing truth with those who are preaching this false gospel?
Just talking about it in a blog (which I realize is just a place for contemplation and discussion) and actually getting out there and doing it – well, actions will ultimately speak louder than words. And hopefully those actions will be taken in a way pleasing to the Most High God.
Maybe these times in America fall within the definition given by Timothy, “…in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power.”
Timothy also said “All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be competent, equipped for every good work.”
So in light of that statement, we can look back to what Paul said, (even though he was saying it in the midst of speaking to the Corinthians about all being a part of one body -the body of Christ…) “If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.”
James says, “But the wisdom from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, open to reason, full of mercy and good fruits, impartial and sincere. And a harvest of righteousness is sown in peace by those who make peace.”
Blessings, peace and joy to you and your families during this time, Christmas, when many hearts may be more open to hear truth.
December 11, 2008 at 9:10 am
Theresa
Please know that I in no way was stating that you do not study God’s Word. It is obvious you do. I, of all people, agree that our motivation must be love. Our love must first be for our Lord because without that love (given to us by God) we are His direct enemies and therefore uncapable of the love needed to speak the words of grace. If we use Jesus as our example (as we are called to do: You therefore must be Perfect as your Heavenly Father is perfect Matthew 5:48) He alone is our standard, our goal is to be like Him. How did He handle the false teachers and pharisees? He handed them scorching hot words of rebuke for their blindness and hard hearts. Only when a pharisee was contrite and broken did He address them otherwise. I know that these young men have stood for the truth of scriptures to leaders who do not teach rightly. They both have been dismissed or ridiculed by the very false teachers they have attempted to show truth to. They are indeed walking their faith and not just writing some ideological dream that they wish to attain. Now I know we will not ever attain perfection this side of glory. All the more cause for us to run to grace. To the cross where judgement and grace met and the wrath and love of God were displayed in terrible beauty. The lengths that God went to to save His people is amazing. Should not our attempts reflect the love expressed to us both terrible and beautiful. I agree we must speak in love but we must also speak with urgency and allow God to do the work.
May you and yours be drawn ever closer to God and His beloved Son as we remember how our Lord humbled Himself to be born of a virgin and rejected by many to save His elect.
Tim